Curse

Slade xTekno · Aug 28, 2005, 05:34 AM // 05:34

So far, this game has been relatively free of elitists - of those who make fun of those they believe to be lesser instead of helping them reach a higher level of play. GWG especially has been fairly calm [compared to GWO

].

Then I posted a R/W Axe build w/o an Elite [lol] I tried in Random Arena today in The Campfire forum, where I received some very negative posts, including these
About my build:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I think I'm gonna go jump off a cliff.

About The Campfire forum:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nash

If you don't care about the best, then don't bother with this forum. I'm done with this thread, discussing scrub stuff is a waste of time.

I personally find this game fascinating. The number of skill combinations is endless, and a recent Fansite Friday revealed that they plan to have over a thousand skills as this game progresses. I used to play TCGs a lot, and am amazed that this game actually has a metagame, where one must adapt to the builds currently in dominance. I hear that reconaisance [sp?] is important before Guild Battles in order to have the correct strategy and counters to opponents.

However, I am one of those casual gamers that GW claims to target. I don't have much time, considering my long-distance relationship, a part-time job, and soon, 15 units worth of schoolwork [and longer-distance relationship

]. I don't have a majority of skill points unlocked, so I like to experiment with what I have, and what better opportunity than this weekend's PvPX, where a good build will reward me with a good amount of faction without having to trouble the higher arenas.

I know elitists are inevitable, but why is a game for casual gamers so negative toward them? Is it that once they have reached the top, they forget who they once were? Could it be that power, even insubstantial, truly corrupts? Or is it just proof that man is evil? Are elitists as common in GW as compared to other games?

I apologize for a rant, but I hate for my and other people like me's experience in this great game be ruined by a few dark clouds in the sky.

Maika Boila Radovu · Aug 28, 2005, 06:08 AM // 06:08

I havent played much PvP yet but PvE has been extremely friendly pretty much all across the board. People answer questions you ask in the local chat almost right away, almost everyone will take the time to explain things to you if you need it.

The time spent in PvP I did find some people who thought they were "hardcore" but in my opinion it wasnt overpowering. I too am just a casual player my time available for the game spikes up and down week by week and I think you'll find that most people are like that too. There will always be snobby people in games because there will is always snobby people in real life. I wouldn't worry about it because most players arent like that.

wolfy3455 · Aug 28, 2005, 06:12 AM // 06:12

The r/w topic has been discussed to death and yet neither side has convinced the other side. All it is proof of is that man does get fed up with making the same argument twenty million times.

You got flamed. Honestly, you probably didn't completely deserve it, but deal with it. The way you're responding to it is completely immature and shows that your enthusiasm is dampened too easily. People get sick of the seeing the same thing and correcting the same (possibly percieved) mistakes. I saw your build, and yes, it was pretty bad. Obviously, the quoted lines didn't add anything to the thread but give them a break, they're not payed to be nice to newer players.

neoflame · Aug 28, 2005, 06:14 AM // 06:14

High-level PvP is about competition and victory. Why are you surprised that PvPers malign you for posting an obviously inferior build?

Ensign · Aug 28, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I'll spell this out for you.

The build you posted was awful. It wasn't even the interesting variety of awful. Terrible Ranger/Warrior melee builds are posted in that forum every few days.

The subject has been beaten to death dozens of times over. Yet every few days, like clockwork, another Ranger/Warrior melee build pops up.

Hence, the general reaction to yet another post on that subject is 'you have go to be kidding me', or as Eonwe so eloquently put it 'why do we even bother?'

What you managed to do was stir up a topic that makes the scrubs go 'Oooh! I love my melee Ranger so much!' and makes the 'elitists' groan. There was never going to be a shred of useful build discussion in that thread, and everyone knew it.

Of course you decided to add a bit of fuel to the fire anyway:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

You are so blinded by your elitism and so quick to judge that you have the nerve to think that I am looking for the "best" build.

So what exactly did you hope to accomplish by posting that thread? You didn't want criticism of your build, so, what, you just wanted all the other Ranger/Warriors to gather around so you could form a social circle?

You think that 'those who know what they are talking about' are going to be thrilled when you come into their forum, the one where new builds are dissected and criticized in one of the few serious wings of the site, and set up your own little 'criticism free happy scrub zone'?

Of course not.

This topic has been beaten to death. Use the search function. Love the search function. If you don't want to discuss your build, don't post it in *build discussion*. If you don't want to make your build better, there's nothing to discuss. It's that simple.

Peace,
-CxE

Constance_Necrotik · Aug 28, 2005, 06:53 AM // 06:53

2 major problems are causing this.

1. What you are doing in creating your own build is being an individual. You are not following the herd aimlessly. Openly stating you are a casual player also bans you from ever possibly being one of the 733t, h4x0r, Uber Godly "I pwnz U n00b!1!!!" players. This pushes you further from the locker room nakid butt smacking banter.

You are an outsider. You are not interested in or, in some cases, able to conform and therefore deserve to be discriminated against with all the fervor a weak minded extremist can muster.

2. Even if you keep your mouth shut from now on, you will not escape this treatment. Due to A-Net's farming nerfs it is unlikely that playing a few hours a week will ever net you anything close to black dyed 15k or Fissure, a maxed out Crystaline and maxed out Shadow. (I think that combo would run you about 1.5-2 mill with the fissure, maybe more). You will therefore look different, (liek teh stpuid n00b lolz!!1!). And again, my second paragraph will apply.

Good luck my friend. I'm in the same boat as you.

One more thing though. I looked at the build you posted. Honestly, it was pretty bad... Keep reading and keep trying though, you'll come up with something!

PS: You now owe me Slade, I'm gonna take some SERIOUS flame off yer behind for this post... =)

strcpy · Aug 28, 2005, 08:36 AM // 08:36

"So what exactly did you hope to accomplish by posting that thread? You didn't want criticism of your build, so, what, you just wanted all the other Ranger/Warriors to gather around so you could form a social circle?"

If that was his purpose, what is wrong with it? Nothing the matter with that in a social game on a board where people socialise.

You can tell someone thier build stinks without being mean, and if it is that bad and overdone just ignore it. Pretty easy to do and is generally a nice thing.

Though I would also add that the original poster didn't seem to handle criticism too well and posted on a board that was inviting such a thing. Also easy to ignore.

I just don't see enough for either side to get too worked up over it.

Morganas · Aug 28, 2005, 08:42 AM // 08:42

Most people post on campfire because they desire criticism, a good deal of the OPs in there ask for it, and subsequently thank those who ripped into their ideas. They don't do this because they're humble people (well maybe they are), they do it because taking criticism makes them better players.

ElderAtronach · Aug 28, 2005, 08:47 AM // 08:47

Amen. I don't recall ever getting a build of mine trashed by the more experienced guys before, but I know I've posted some n00b builds there in the past, and looking back, I can't believe how bad those builds are compared to what I can put together now. lol.

DrSLUGFly · Aug 28, 2005, 09:02 AM // 09:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slade xTekno

but why is a game for casual gamers so negative toward them?

Many very peaceful things are used for horrendous purposes... The most notable being dynamite... the name of dynamite's inventor is now the highest award a person can receive globally for working towards peace, yet without dynamite we'd never have had nuclear weaponry... or probably even effective bullets.

The game may have been "meant" for casual gamers, but admit it, it's addictive to the point of being hazardous to your health... combine that with the crowd drawn in from counterstrike and other such high-aggression/low-tolerance games and you have this result.

Myself, I've found that once I had found a reasonable group of people to work with (my guild and my PvP regular friends) the most I've had to put up with is a few retards spamming racism or F*U* in local chat...

I love this game... too much... I can't wait for Black and White 2 to be released so I can stop this game for a while and possibly regain some of my savagely sacrificed health.

Andy_M · Aug 28, 2005, 09:41 AM // 09:41

Hehe, funny thread. I'm afraid elitists appear in all games and this one is no different. Getting more vocal in their 'closed shopness' though...

Bast · Aug 28, 2005, 10:09 AM // 10:09

Regular forum readers see trash builds like that about every time they look at The Campfire. Seeing the same garbage day in and day out is what causes the brutal responses from the "elitists." If you'd just search in there a bit you'd probably see some other thread with practically the same bad build being owned by the "elitists" and you'd think twice about repeating someone else's mistake.

Oh, and by the way: R/W is inferior to W/Anything in melee. Stop trying to say otherwise.

Ensign · Aug 28, 2005, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constance_Necrotik

1. What you are doing in creating your own build is being an individual.

Ah, the militant scrub! What a rare breed you are! Yes, despite being terrible at the game you can still look down upon others because of - wait for it - your *creativity*.

Because, you know, it isn't like those good builds that people copy were ever invented by someone. Or refined by someone. Or had a whole lot more creative energy than you can even imagine pumped into them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Constance_Necrotik

2. Even if you keep your mouth shut from now on, you will not escape this treatment.

Where the hell have you been? We openly mock people with that stuff as well.

"Oh my god guys, he has a Chaos Axe, everyone run!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

If that was his purpose, what is wrong with it?

He's being incredibly foolish. He posted it in build *discussion*. Just taking a casual look at the contents of the forum would give him a very good idea of what sorts of discussion take place there. If you're going to post a build there, it's going to get ripped apart and its parts laid bare for everyone to see. Or, in this case, was so bad that it wasn't even worth analyzing, and the forumites made it abundantly clear that was the case.

If he didn't want that to happen to his build he needed to post in a different forum, or not at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldfinger

Fack what a stupid reply. Honestly, you are trying to tell me "I am going to go jump off of a cliff" is acceptable criticism, or better yet, criticism at all?

Why do people insist on quoting my posts in their entirity, when it is abundantly clear that they never bothered to even read them in the first place?

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldfinger

Wow, really great criticism.

What, praytell, was there to criticize? The build he posted was dogshit, and a constructive list of everything wrong with that build would take far more effort than it deserved. The only advice worth giving was 'this build is terrible. Go read this forum and others some more, go work on your build a bit, and come back when you have something useful to say'.

Or, and I'm not trying to justify this response as much as explain it, they simply respond with their own version of 'would you people please stop posting the exact same bad builds over and over again? I'm getting tired of wading through it'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldfinger

There was not one bit of discussion in that thread.

Not only was there no discussion in that thread, but there was zero potential for discussion. None. Nothing to discuss. In fact the only person who did try to help at all was attacked for it by the OP. If you try and sell trash as gold to a bunch of people who know better, they're going to call you on it, and let you have it. This should surprise no one.

Peace,
-CxE

asdar · Aug 28, 2005, 10:54 AM // 10:54

If there was no discussion possible then why did you reply?

You couldn't ignore the thread and let it pass, or better yet lets someone with more patience than you point out the short comings of the build so that a newer player would learn.

No matter what you hear it's possible to avoid posting on every thread you're an expert on.

Scaphism · Aug 28, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

Two points:
1. Do not post in build discussion if you can't handle criticism. If the criticism is out of line, PM a mod or one of the forum regulars and ask why your post got such a harsh reception.
Most likely you A) Posted a bad build or B) Posted a bad build that's been posted before.

2. If you're new, start by asking questions. If you show you want to learn and improve it will encourage other people to give you constructive advice. If you only come with your "great build that rocks", you line yourself up nicely to be knocked down. The same goes on any forum- if you're new, take the time to learn the basics, or ask someone who's familiar what's going on.

Those are absolutes.
As a mod, threads which do not contribute to the discussion on the forums will be closed or deleted. And if you have a problem with that, bring it up with the individual mods or find an existing post in our Site Feedback forum.

MCS · Aug 28, 2005, 11:05 AM // 11:05

Why do people try to argue with Ensign....?

You can't win an argument because hes always right.

Savio · Aug 28, 2005, 11:13 AM // 11:13

I'd argue with Ensign, but not about GW or anything numbers-related.

To the OP:
If a bunch of players flamed it, there's a damn good reason why. In this case, it was really bad. Ranger Expertise + Warrior energy attacks + spread attribute points = bad build. R/W or W/R tends to be worse off then just running a pure warrior.

They're pretty rough on the builds discussion, and for a good reason too: if you're posting a build there for critique, you should probably expect it to be turned inside out, torn apart, pureed, and handed back to you. In this case, though, they booted it out the window, which pretty much means there was nothing good to hand back to you.

Simply because it won a few times in random Arenas means pretty much jack squat; with the randomness and the massive influx of PvP this weekend, you're looking at a lot of bad players out there. Do Team Arenas, Guild battles or Tombs battles (if you can even get into them) and see how effective your build becomes then.

Teufel Eldritch · Aug 28, 2005, 12:47 PM // 12:47

IMO on these boards a person shouldnt be trashed for posting a build. Leave that to crap to... the OTHER GW forum. Here ppl should act respectful & polite. Just my opinion...prolly get flamed for it eh?

DrSLUGFly · Aug 28, 2005, 12:53 PM // 12:53

you tellin us to be polite??? considerate??? YOu miserable bastard! you asking us to THINK???? STFU!!!!

thinking is for noobs

Aniewiel · Aug 28, 2005, 01:15 PM // 13:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

I'd argue with Ensign, but not about GW or anything numbers-related.

That's the truth.

Quote:

If a bunch of players flamed it, there's a damn good reason why. In this case, it was really bad. Ranger Expertise + Warrior energy attacks + spread attribute points = bad build.

They're pretty rough on the builds discussion, and for a good reason too: if you're posting a build there for critique, you should probably expect it to be turned inside out, torn apart, pureed, and handed back to you. In this case, though, they booted it out the window, which pretty much means there was nothing good to hand back to you.

While I think it's good to have things critiqued and argued, it is possible to do it kindly. After all, sometimes people are new at build creation and, on a first attempt, it's possible that they make mistakes.

That said, OP, you sort of asked for it by some of the things you said. I agree with the ones who said that the best way to approach a new build (at least to you) is to ask questions and *gasps* use the search key to see if it's been discussed before. Only after doing those things would it be adviseable to post your build. Then put on your Fissure armor and get ready for the ride.

Having one's ideas taken apart and analyzed, however, shouldn't give people the right to be abusive either. It's astonishing to me how plain downright mean others can be. Analysis doesn't require ugliness.